The Day We Fight Back

Tuesday, October 7, 2008


I'm crying as I type this and I shouldn't have to be doing this at all, but I feel I have to cause my reputation has been called into serious question and I've been put in the position to defend myself. Phoenix Chapman posted some serious allegations about some jeans I sell in my store. Namely the Punk as Hell 1984 jeans and the Dia De Los Muertos jeans, both made a year ago from a base jeans texture I purchased on SLex when I was just starting out. She claims they are taken from Torrid Midnight's jeans and I do see some similarity in the pictures. They're close and I dont even know if they came from her jeans or from the same photosource and they do look photosourced to me not hand painted.

The texture was bought in good faith and I had no reason at the time to think they were anything but something offered to new designers to help them get started. I modified the textures with my own wrinkles and filters. They were some of the first things I made when I only had a few items in my store. Now after a lot of practice and months of work and experience I draw just about everything by hand with very little photosourcing. It's taken a lot of hard work.

I have a lot of friends who are designers...and several of them have been ripped off. I've sat up all night and cried with them over it, encoraged them to file dmca's and it breaks my heart to think that anyone would think I would do something like that on purpose. I responded on this malicious post (one made without contacting me to hear my side or even inform me that this was an issue) I have taken down the vendors displaying these jeans and will NEVER sell them again. I apologise to Torrid and anyone else that may be involved in this. I've never gotten a DMCA or word from anyone on it before this morning. I heard about it from someone I hardly know sending me a link to her site in world.

This post of hers effects my RL income. It's libelous and wrong and I will be seeking legal representation unless it's removed and retracted or some sort of apology is made. I should have been contacted and given the chance to respond or repair the situation before my whole life was put at risk. So thank YOU've just attacked and damaged an honest person who unknowingly made a mistake when she was a new designer.

Ivey Deschanel


Ivey Deschanel said...

PS In response to Phoenix's claim that all my work is made from purchased kits...THAT IS WRONG AND A LIE. I have purchased one other kit from WMD made especially for designers to use and it was also of jeans. And I have purchased sculpty packs for collars and sleeves but my textures are my OWN!
I have over 400 original designs in my main store now and anyone that wants to contest that can talk to me personally.

Anonymous said...

you would think after the nightmare Torrid went through after GL intercepting her "friend's" skin she might be a little more tactful in accusing someone of texture theft.

Anonymous said...

You would also think after Phoenix and her love of Minnu and her "borrowed" skins she'd be a bit more tactful too. Can't call out people for making mistakes when you've so fervently defended those that have done the same or worse.


Lindsay said...

It really annoys me when people say things like this. It sounds like there's a fair bit of spiteful nastiness behind such a comment.
Jealousy, perhaps?
You bought the texture in good know you did nothing wrong.
It's libel and she ought to be ashamed...full stop.
*Hugs* Bryony Constantine Xx

Ivey Deschanel said...

Thanks everyone for their support and IMs. I did do something wrong though even though at the time I didnt know any better. I wish I could take it back but I cant. I have apologised, removed everything associated with it and will move on. I know in my heart I didnt do anything malicious or with intent to decieve. I know a lot of designers that start out using pre made templates but in the past year I have gone on from that, made my own style and built this business on my OWN talent and work. I have nothing to be ashamed of. I sympathise with all designers who have had things stolen. I've been copied myself and it absolutely sucks. I would NEVER intentionally do that to anyone. I'm standing firm on that. Again, anyone that has anything to say about any of my designs can come to me personally.

Lindsay said...

What I meant was that there was no intent to do anything wrong.
You've worked hard to make your SL business what it is.

Ms Chapman appears to be suffering from an attack of the green eyed monster.
Shame on her.

Connie in a Sec said...

Unprofessional hyperbole in blogs seems to be the done thing. If it was posted to be "published" in a 1st life paper, the Corp lawyers would have been onto it like a shot. Why is it that some bloggers seem to think they are outside of the norms of other published work?
One day the laws of libel WILL be tested in the realm of blogs, then perhaps certain people will have to be more prudent in their postings

SySy Chapman said...

*hugs* chin up! I left you a note in world ;)

Beatrix Noel said...

I'm really sorry this happened to you. Sn@Tch is one of my favorite stores.

I think it's weird that this is being talked about now considering how long the Punk as Hell Jeans have been around, I know I've had them in my inventory for a long time.

I wanted to respond to Phoenix Chapman but she closed the comments on her blog (which is frustrating).

Using SL Secrets as a way to say "oh there are rumors about sn@Tch " is kinda... lame.

Anonymous said...

Wow what a nasty post! I would reply over on the other blog but comments are closed. I can't believe nobody has even contacted you over this before going public! I don't know you Ivey but I believe what you are saying that you bought the textures in good faith. What a load of gossip whoring this whole thing is! Bad journalism or what. I wish you well Ivey, people are behind you in this.

next week said...

Funny how her blog is titled Be Less Stupid.

She needs to take her own advice.

We're with you, Ivey. <3

Arima said...

The more useless drama in the whole SL history, isn'it? In 15 minutes it was finished and the girl closed the comments (she is a minnu fan too, sheesh... and yes, I heard in past about the GL intercept thing about Torrid, double-sheesh). Whitout mention that the Torrid jeans have (at least one) photosourced base, and its not hand drawn as Phoenix said, its pretty clear lol
Keep up the good work Ivey, those people are really really... crazy?

I'm sorry for my english, is not my first language.

cl0wnprincess said...

I'm saddened to hear that happened! I own a few Sn@tch items and I can say I LOVE them dearly!!

I wish though, that she would do the RIGHT THING and contact you NICELY and PRIVATELY about it, like "Hey..I was looking at your stuff, and... etc etc." But to just THROW IT OUT THERE UGH! *sighs*

Puer Aeternus said...

What a load of bollocks.
Phoenix wants attention, nothing more.

A matter between two known designers is best closed -in private- in an IM, a calm conversation rather than public slander by a third party.

Nothing shows hypocrisy more than Phoenix being the third party after her defense of Minnu, oh well, at the very least she feels famous again now.

--Vaalith Jinn.

Puer Aeternus said...

apparently Phoenix has just removed her blog entry, hope it all gets sorted out Ivey.

I know Torrid herself has been in a rather messy situation a couple of years ago and i do not envy what happened to her, so i hope you two are talking.

Best wishes and hugs.
--Vaalith Jinn

Arima said...

"update: apparently Phoenix has just removed her blog entry"

No... that's too much clever for her. She just made an update. And pics are still in her flickr too.
At least we can read other comments from that "I'm so wannabe Crew".

"I have way more important things going on right now in my real life than this. I am already tired of the drama" Phoenix Chapman.

This is so naughty and ridiculous.

Winter Jefferson said...

Ivey; you will always have my support. I'll speak up and continue to purchase pretty much everything you make. You've told me in the past about how much time and effort you take over creating textures. It seems clear that both items were created from a similar base; but there is no evidence of ripping.
Please, people - check facts before posting something that can damage someone's livelihood. This type of slander can be hard for a business to recover from. Let the DMCA's sort it out.

Anonymous said...

Tired of the drama? I think drama is exactly what she was after and ewww maybe she should concentrate on getting herself out of a flea infested motel room instead of stirring up sl drama.

Puer Aeternus said...

Dear Anonymous, the 'motel' thing was cheap and under the belt, no need for that.

As for password-protecting her post, well, it shows just how much she 'stands by her words'.

Regardless, Ivey, your response to her inflammatory blogpost was nothing but graceful.

--Vaalith Jinn.

Yukio Ida said...

I just did a search on Sn@tch and looked at other blogs searching for any proof of what this chick is saying..
Uh.. there is none.
<3 you ivey
don't worry hon

Tristan Micheline said...

Ivey, Those of us who follow your line of clothing know and appreciate all the hard work and originality of your designs. I would never for a second believe you knowingly copied another design. Your clothing has been and will continue to be my favorite in all of SL. Hugs to you hun. Keep your chin up and hang in there.

Darwin said...

I love your store Ivey. I think those fashion blogs are a waste of space and malicious most of the time anyway. Even a monkey can throw on clothing and write an opinion on it. If one is going to stray from fashion and do reporting then act like a reporter and get both sides of the story.

Keep up the good work and stay the down to earth person that you are, that's why I keep coming back to your store. Hugs

Fel said...

I can't believe the nerve of her. To not even give you a chance to talk about it before she threw it up on a blog that anyone could encounter, to try to drag your name and Sn@tch's name through the mud...

<3 ya boss, keep your chin up. All of us are behind you!

- Fel

soublu383 said...

Qouted from her blog and since comments are closed over there:

"I have not deleted the post, merely made it private until Torrid herself can comment on this situation, and I have no intention of deleting the post."

Not only did she NOT talk to Ivey about the situation, she didn't even talk to the alleged "original" designer. If you're going to put someone on blast please make sure you have at least information from the accusing side. Be less stupid, Phoenix.

melanieann said...

@ Puer Aeternus said...

"Dear Anonymous, the 'motel' thing was cheap and under the belt, no need for that."

Oh, you mean like how Phoenix's entire post -- the cavalier manner in which the situation was handled, the really catty way it was worded -- was cheap and under the belt?

Raven said...

Hey sweetie, just wanted to say chin up,you did nothing wrong and
those who take the high road always come out on top in situations like this. Your response to the post was both professional and tactful. I wish bloggers would understand in situations like this(not all just some), this is the
business of the designers involved and not the entire blog feed. If she thought there was an issue you both should have been informed quietly and confidentially so you both could have resolved it together.Withough a whole media circus around it.
Crying out.."its my right" to say what ever you feel like at the time,regardless of the outcome of those your writing about it wrong. This is peoples wellfare,how they put food on the table and make a living. A little more thought and consideration needs to be put into these things before just typing away. Has nothing to do with your freedom of speech..check your facts before ripping apart someone in front of everyone..If you want to be a fashion a fashion reporter..not a tabloid.

Anonymous said...

Torrid has made a response on her own blog:

It is a brief response and she closes it with these words: "All the insult slinging that is happening does not make anything better, I am not responding to it, it just fuels fires."

Unfortunately she does not allow comments, because I do have one simple question for her that needs only either a Yes or No response, hopefully someone will see this comment and direct Torrid to it so that she may answer.

Phoenix Chapman claims that Torrid gave her the okay to post that blog. I find it very hard to believe that Torrid would be okay with Phoenix posting this BS when Torrid never contacted Ivey herself, apparently never filed a DMCA (either herself or her buziness partner), knew about this MONTHS ago so they had lots of time to do either, and she's had her share of public turmoil, being accused of being less than honest when she edited a skin she bought off Lost.

So, straight up question for Torrid. All I want to know is, did you give Phoenix Chapmn the greenlight on that post? I'm asking because I'd like to know for sure whether or not I will be boycotting your store from now on.

Hope I hear an answer soon.

That Damn Naughty Neko said...

UGH! I just dealt with some idiot making random claims about another designer in my mall area. There are real thieves out there (with evidence to prove it) that need to be dealt with. I have personally kicked people out of my shopping area when I have gotten concrete proof of their thievery. The latest IM I got was some chick telling me that since one of my designers bought sculpties and used a wrinkle template early on (and openly admitted to it)that she was not a "real" designer and proceeded to call her a liar and a thief. We can't all be experts at everything. People buy custom anims from me and use them in their items, does that make them liars? I created the anim, they created the item. Collaboration helps us create items that may not exist without that effort. I used a freebie sculpty heart on one of my skirts. . .so please forgive me because I have lied to you all and now the truth is out!
This is all a bunch of head-hunting and unfounded claims.
I know Ivey. I know she is a good and honest designer. Forget these people and let's worry about the real thieves. If Torrid had a problem with it I am sure she would have taken it up with Ivey. I really don't see where Phoenix fits in. Templates help us learn and are completely legal (unless they themselves are stolen of course).
Rant over.
Luv you Ivey!
Shake them haters off homeskillet!

Roblem Hogarth said...

When I tried to post a reply to the phoenix chapman "Blog" last night I found comments closed not 5 min after Ivey posted her reply. Currently the original post is password protected by this "Blogger" so you can't even read it. In a posting above, this "blogger" defends her post with statements like, "I have way more important things going on right now in my real life than this. I am already tired of the drama, and I don’t have the energy for the controversy right now.
". Are WE to feel bad for YOU now? I think we can all see the direction this is going.

Much much more importantly everyone, I just personaly wanted to thank you all for the supportive posts here and inworld. As you can imagine last night was a rough one for Ivey and I and this was very welcome thing to wake up to. No one knows better than I do how much effort goes into everything Ivey makes.

Ivey is the most amazing and creative person I have ever known and it is gift to me to share my life with her virtualy and IRL.

Love you babe,
Roblem Hogarth

Chic Aeon said...

We have so much hearsay going on these days it is simply ridiculous. Add to that the VERY faulty DMCA process (I mean talk about being guilty and having to prove you are innocent) et al, it makes me shake my head. From all the comments that I read (and obviously I can't get to the original post now) Torrid (who I don't know but do admire) has said nothing in print about this. If we take out all the he said - she said stuff we are only left with accusations and mistakes. I am staying out of all the arguments on the feed. You can take sides certainly but unless you KNOW something, it is just that. Ivey, you know I am a giant fan (and one of your first public ones) and I love my '84 jeans which were one of my first bits of non-noob clothes and I still have them. Supporting our designers is good, but I do agree with Torrid that this should have been handled differently - if at all. It seems a lot like a witch hunt. And after all it's the season. May we all eventually learn our lessons and handle any problems in private. Hang in there. I can tell you from RL experience, it is only the "famous" that get picked on :D

Ivey Deschanel said...

First off, I have the original post by Ms Chapman saved in a word document for legal purposes if it comes down to that.

And thank you again to everyone thats responded and contacted me in world. I'm humbled and so grateful. I've also made some new friends because of it. So if any good comes out of all this it will be that people recognize that this doesnt belong in the public feed. until all the people involved have had a chance to resolve it or at least comment. It was totally unecessary I work 80 hours and more a week designing and I LOVE it. If someone had come to me right away and told me those jeans looked like Torrid's I would have taken them down in a second and anyone that knows me, knows that.
Anyone that actually knows my clothes can see clearly my shadows, wrinkles and textures are mostly hand drawn, different in every piece and not even photosourced. I've NEVER had an accusation like this before in over a year of designing. There is nothing I have found about me in SCD or any other blog challenging my honestly. That said, I'm going to let this die. If it continues tho, I will come down from the high road and have my lawyer handle it from that point on. Everything based on this texture (which came in a business in a box with multiple textures I never used) has been removed from my inventory and my hard drive. The vendors have all been taken down from all my branch stores and I will be using other jeans I made from scratch to replace the outfits.

Thank you all again so much.
I am back to work.


Cajsa Lilliehook said...

So sorry to read about this.

As one of the monkeys throwing on clothing, I believe that fashion blogs are not the proper place for accusations of content theft to be aired. There are blogs that specialize in that sort of thing (Shopping Cart Disco/Stop Content Theft) where one would hope there is some level of expertise and professionalism - which includes seeking comment and corroboration.

Additionally, the aggrieved designer whose design was stolen may choose to go public in a blog, but otherwise making accusations of theft is irresponsible and damaging. To do so without seeing comment from the accused or even from the person allegedly harmed is so far outside the bounds of professionalism that it's astounding.

Sadly, this lack of professionalism hurts you and it hurts Torrid Midnight as people leap to the conclusions about her role in the post. I would advise everyone to step back and let Ivey and Torrid sort it out without denunciations on either side and reserve our disgust for those who cause unnecessary hurt and drama through recklessness

In this, I don't mean just Phoenix who is not alone in making accusations off the cuff. There have been so many accusations recently, and enough unfounded ones that it creates a sense of "crying wolf"

Ivey Deschanel said...

Just an update. And a happy one. Torrid and I talked at length awhile ago and resolved everything. I gave her the name of the person I purchased the texture from and I have her support and thanks. She has informed me she never saw Ms Chapman's "article" and has no idea what it contained specifically and I believe her. She was extremely gracious and I am as always a huge fan and so sppreciative for her understanding. That is the way it should have happened in the first place. Again thank you all. I'm so grateful for all the support and I promise to only make more and produce original work as I have been for a long time.


Abigale Heron said...

I'm so sorry to read this :(
Ivey don't care of this foolish people!

Anonymous said...

Tell Phoenix to go back to the Sims 2 community if she wants to start shit. Kick her ass, Ivey!

Lawra Fredrickson said...

Oh dear Ivey, you're so humble.
I'm glad things are worked out,and I hope your good name is not slandered from this. You are SUCH a good person and so very talented.
I know many designers, including myself that started out with templates or things off SLX or somewhere similar.

Keep your chin up Ivey and remember our conversation about people sitting around in jammies and cold coffee. That's all it is.
You're better than that.
Your clothes rock and anyone that knows you knows how much time and effort that goes into everything you do.

hugs and hugs

Roblem Hogarth said...

I'm posting this here in case it gets removed from "that other" site.

Phoenix, you need to step off here.
First the Title of the original blog post was “Torridware Ripped by Sn@tch” I invite anyone to ask Torrid Midnight and she will tell you that she understands that Ivey bought these textures off of SLexchange a year ago in a pack of Textures she thought to be legit. End of story. (Torrid and Ivey who have now both been dragged through the mud by bloggers BTW, enjoy a friendly relationship)
Sn@tch did not “RIP” the textures. The person selling them on SLexchange did. So your implications were untrue. Plain and simple.
Second you claimed that Sn@tch was mentioned, and talked about in SL Secrets, on the site. Anyone can go there and see that this also is untrue.
Furthermore, you “backed up” your story with a lot of heresay such that “you heard” that All of Sn@tch clothing is made from kits etc. Also untrue, in point of fact. (of course, maybe, your “heard it” from???)
You are NOT a Hero for taking down both of your original posts, it was simply a good move. Still defending your actions is a joke, at best.

Roblem Hogarth